Over on my other blog I machine-translated an interview with Akihiko Hirata that was published in volume 3 of Toho's Tokusatsu Eiga book series. The book also included a lengthy interview with Ishirō Honda that I'm going to translate and type up below.
I'll copy-paste the disclaimer I wrote in that post, since it applies here as well: I have some qualms about machine-translating an interview, to say the least, but I think that, as long as we all take this for what it is, there's not really anything wrong with me posting it. Just please keep in mind while reading this that a machine translation can't capture the same nuance and accuracy as a translation done by a real human.
Machine-translating anything from Japanese to English is like playing pronoun roulette, so I've tried to fix things like that (as well as past/present tense mixups) in order for this to be readable. In parts where the translation came out heavily garbled, I've omitted it instead of running the risk of replicating something that's inaccurate and makes no sense. (Although, I can read kana and understand a tiny bit of spoken Japanese, so I'm not going into this, like, totally blind... just mostly blind.)
Instead of creating extensive footnotes, I've elected to insert TL notes within the text. I hope this isn't too annoying. I'm also using official English titles for films, where applicable. The book does not seem to specify who conducted the interview.
- The first [film] you worked on with special effects director Eiji Tsuburaya was The Man Who Came To Port (1952).
Honda: Yes.
- This is a work that makes extensive use of [rear projection].
Honda: Yes, those are the activities of whalers in Antartica. There was tens of thousands of feet of film taken by cameramen Hiromitsu Kawasawa and Tasuichi Kankura on board the fleet.
- Was this film you shot as a documentary?
Honda: It was decided that they would use this film to make a feature film about whale hunting, starring Toshirō Mifune and Takashi Shimura. The original work was Shinzo Kajino's "Dance of the Stormy Waves". Kajino is a sea writer. The project was to create a sense of reality through a new screen process.
- So you didn't do any location filming at all?
Honda: [...] Some of the scenes were filmed in Onagawa Port in Miyagi Prefecture, where actors appeared in scenes such as filming stories off the coast of Mt. Kinka, discovering whales, and scenes at a [ship] dismantling yard. I [filmed] a place that doesn't exist.
- It was the first special effects movie.
Honda: That's right. However, it was not a work that made extensive use of miniatures. For The Blue Pearl (1951), all the underwater shots were shot documentary-style using Toba.
- In that sense, regarding the use of special effects, did you have confidence?
Honda: Well, [Eiji] Tsuburaya [was] in charge of that. Besides, I don't have any particular disagreements with Tsuburaya. The shooting progressed smoothly.
- The next movie was Eagle of the Pacific (1953), which was a huge hit at the box office. The following year's Farewell Rabaul was also a war story that used special effects. In that sense, did you have any reservations about doing a special effects film like Godzilla (1954)?
Honda: No, no.
- Is it because of The Man Who Came To Port that you started to have a personal relationship with Mr. Tsuburaya?
Honda: That's right. At work, we saw each other almost every day in the cafeteria.
- I also asked Takeo Murata [TL: The book also includes this interview] about the world's first full-fledged monster movie, Godzilla. What is the image of Godzilla? The Lost World (1925) and the pioneering work King Kong (1933) [were] where it came from, right?
Honda: For me, the image of the work as a whole is a war experience.
- Ah, I guess that's true.
Honda: I had such a great [TL: Not "great" as in "good". Honda was both a soldier and a prisoner of war and has said he preferred the latter to the former.] experience of war, seeing Tokyo and other parts of Japan reduced to ashes. Then came the atomic bomb that reduced Hiroshima to ashes. Therefore, we considered the character of Godzilla based on that fear. Even though its body is an animal, it has a ferocity that cannot be defeated by anything, and no amount of weapons can do anything about it. That's Godzilla. The work was done with these things in mind, so I didn't feel any discomfort or resistance.
- Thinking deeply, [that?] means....
Honda: Yeah [...] Godzilla is huge. If it's just a monster from the past, a single cannon shot will probably kill it. But if it becomes an atomic bomb, there's nothing we can do about it. His character, his strength [...]
- It is a living thing, but not a living thing.
Honda: Yes.
- But it's like that kind of visual imagination. I think it's a bit impossible for a director who is shooting a normal melodrama or something. Therefore, later, other companies produced monster movies, but they were not as successful as Toho's. I have a question as to why that is. Well, I think it's strange to ask this kind of thing of a filmmaker [laughs]. Have you seen King Kong?
Honda: Yes, I watched it. But [it happens] that the other creatures are also ancient creatures. Even when dealing with dinosaurs and sword dragons, they fight as living creatures, so there's nothing like splitting their mouths open.
- The impact [TL: I believe he means the impact of other films on Godzilla] is...
Honda: It's about how to make miniatures and photography. You could say that it had a helpful influence on things like shading, but the image we created for Godzilla was much more powerful.
- A "living nuclear weapon", so to speak.
Honda: Yes. What's more, it's that naivety that makes you wonder what would happen if it actually happened.
- Yes.
Honda: If Godzilla really came out and destroyed a building, it would collapse like this, or if a city were to burn down, it would burn in this way. People who make special effects miniatures are also thoroughly pursuing the realism of that. I did. For a building of this size, I wanted to pursue realism and find out how the things inside would burn and what shape the fire would take.
- The way you use special effects [...] didn't exist before then.
Honda: Even if it's just a single tile, even if it's small, each tile is made one by one. It burns from the bottom, so it's very realistic that the fire will start coming out.
- When it comes to Western movies, things like King Kong as well as [TL: Omitted two films I can't recognize due to the interviewer using Japanese titles.] are close to fantasy, even when monsters appear, that's what happens.
Honda: Yes.
- So, how was it possible that [you] were able to create such works only in Japan at that time, and only at Toho, without any preliminary steps or studies? I understand that you were confident in your miniature work with works such as Eagle of the Pacific. Starting from scratch, [you] created a film that would go down in world film history. It's hard to believe that [such] a product could be made. Are you saying there is no...?
Honda: When it comes to the history of Toho special effects, it is impossible to think about it without mentioning Eiji Tsuburaya. That's a record for you guys. It's more detailed... Toho has been releasing special effects works [featuring] Tsuburaya since before the war. The Burning Sky (1940), Bouquet of the South Seas (1942), The War at Sea from Hawaii to Malaya (1942), and Colonel Kato's Flying Squadron (1944). This is how Toho's special effects were cultivated.
- The Odo Island scenes in the main story were filmed on location in Toba, Mie Prefecture.
Honda: That's right. Toba [was] my home base, and I also went to the fishing villages of Aikawa and Ijika in the inner part of Ise to film Godzilla's appearances and diving scenes. [...] After the war, upper management wanted to develop special-effects films as Toho's flagship product.
- This was a time when the film industry itself was doing very well.
Honda: That's right, this was a time of great spirit and desire to create the next most radical thing.
- Does this have something to do with the fact that Toho is a younger company than other companies?
Honda: I guess so. Yes, I think so. Because it was a company with a new management policy, we were able to produce such unusual products.
- In that case, were the staff members younger than those of other companies? I think [you were] young.
Honda: Because the company was young, the average age of its employees was similar to that of other companies. [...] was young compared to the company.
- For Godzilla, there was talk that the special effects crew would start setting up at noon and wouldn't be able to finish filming until around five o'clock the next morning.
Honda: Well, with special effects, you often had to set up a camera and assemble things inside [the] lens. [...] Yes, I took everyone with me.
- Dozens of people?
Honda: There [were] about 50 people.
- Are the villagers following the group extras?
Honda: They were really actors exclusive to Toho.
- They are the so-called "large room people". [TL: Oh boy, this is where I get to use my Japanese film nerd knowledge. So what's getting translated as "large room" here is a term, ōbeya, that has its origins in stage plays. It refers to actors who were in lesser roles, who would sit in costume together in one large room offstage and wait to be called on to play their role.] It seems that was, so I'm sure local people were cooperating.
Honda: [laughs] There might [have been] some local people involved.
- There is a scene where a bell rings and over 100 people run up a mountain path. There must have been four or five hundred.
Honda: I had people from Toba and Ishikagami appear in that one. The [ōbeya] people are at the forefront.
- The [dancing] scene on Odo island also has quite a large number of people.
Honda: That was a shrine in Toba, I believe. All the people dancing are local people.
- There is actually a dance like that in Toba?
Honda: There is. So I asked them to dance. Because it's gagaku [TL: Traditional Japanese court music, lit. "elegant music"]. Akira Ifukube added it to the dance later.
- Godzilla's face appears.
Honda: That was a tengu. I used what was already there.
- Director Honda has talked about this many times. [...] Godzilla is at the top of the ridge. Apparently it was difficult to explain the scene where people suddenly stick their heads out from behind and run away.
Honda: [When they heard] that such a big thing exists, the local people just laughed out loud.
- You brought the storyboards, right? To explain.
Honda: I showed it to everyone. I showed it to you... [laughs] Normal people can't even imagine it.
- [They] didn't know?
Honda: [They] didn't know.
- Was Mr. Tsuburaya present during the filming of such compositing scenes?
Honda: Yes, he was present for everything. Tsuburaya was also in Toba for a few days.
- Is that because Tsuburaya didn't know how to shoot the special effects unless he saw the main story?
Honda: That's right. This is how the main story is shot, so this is how the miniatures [will be] destroyed.
- There's a scene where the camera cuts back. In that sense there is close contact between the main story and the special effects.
Honda: [heavily garbled passage omitted, seems to just be agreeing with what the interviewer said]
- Was the scene where the [research] team investigates Godzilla's footprints in the destroyed village house also filmed in Toba?
Honda: [Toho built] an open set, so we shot there.
- Near the Tomei Expressway...
Honda: That's right. The set is all open, including the collapsing houses as well.
- It's quite realistic. Oh, well done.
Honda: From the point where the research team comes up the slope, everything is open.
- Ah, is the ocean in the background a composite image?!
Honda: Yes. Some of the photos are also included, taken with a stone mirror. [?]
- The [house] attacked and destroyed by Godzilla, is this a so-called rolling set? It's not like the camera is shaking, it's actually the house rippling as it falls over.
Honda: That's because the foundation was partially removed. I'm sure [we] did a lot of things like that. Calculate what would happen if you were trampled by Godzilla. The camera is also moving a little, though. It is.
- At the moment when it breaks, a light flashes.
Honda: That's a technique I often use when there is lightning.
- So you didn't really destroy the house at the filming location [laughs].
Honda: [laughs] Of course, there may be some filming where we buy a real house and tear it down. Usually, that's not the case; everything that needs to be destroyed or burned is a set, and large items are open sets.
- The set is wonderful, and the lighting is not a cocktail beam [TL: "Cocktail" is in katakana, so this is an accurate translation, but I don't know what a "cocktail beam" is] of light, but a single light source. There was only one shadow in the room.
Honda: Yes, at that time, that may [have been] true, but even if there are two shadows, you don't have to worry about [shooting] a picture. When it comes to light sources, the lighting department is so careful that I think they're being too sensitive.
- Especially back then, there were more light bulbs than fluorescent lights, so there would have been only one shadow.
Honda: Yes.
- I think the scene in Ogata's office at the beginning where the sunlight is shining diagonally through the window blinds gives it a very midsummer feel. [Honda?] is very strict in creating strong shadows during the day and using a single light source indoors. I guess you could say that's obvious [laughs].
Honda: Of course [laughs.] That's what it looks like. We thought the staff wouldn't pay attention to that. The cameramen and [lighting department] at that time had such realistic nerves.
- In this work, the lighting was done by Choshiro Ishii.
Honda: Yes. [Ishii] also passed away.
- Godzilla is a midsummer story, so [you] had to express [the heat] through video.
Honda: When it comes to seasonal feelings, it's hard to see anything like this in a movie. I think there are almost no movies that really make you feel the heat.
- Godzilla is black-and-white, so it's unnecessary. It may be difficult, but I think it really showed a sense of the season. There aren't many [scenes] where [someone's] face is covered in oily sweat or someone says "It's hot, it's hot" and keeps wiping it with a handkerchief, but it's expressed through lighting and other small details. The same goes for the set I mentioned earlier, but [Honda?] says that creating such realistic images was what really supported Godzilla.
Honda: In the case of Godzilla, the story itself is fantastical, or rather romantic. Therefore, in order to convey Godzilla's ferocity, we thought that it would be necessary to portray it in a completely realistic manner on screen.
- The art director for Godzilla was Takeo Kita, and the [secondary?] art director was Satoshi Chuko. How about this? What was the division of roles?
Honda: That was considered a blockbuster, and the budget was a big problem, so Mr. Kita, who was the production manager at the time, was specially appointed to be the art director.
- Then the actual art...
Honda: [Chuko was] doing it. [Chuko] read Mikio Naruse's literary masterpieces. [TL: Not too sure about this section] He's the one who did it.
- Photographed by Masao Tamai. He is a veteran photographer and takes photographs in a very straightforward manner. [TL: "Photography" in this case means "cinematography"]
Honda: Yes, Mr. Tamai came from Kyoto. That's right.
- [TL note: in this passage the interviewer is describing Masao Tamai's early career, but the translation is quite garbled, so I'm going to paste in a link to Tamai's Wikipedia article that says essentially the same thing.]
Honda: [Tamai] has also shot quite a few literary masterpieces.
- [Tamai] won the Cinematography Award at the Mainichi Film Contest for Naruse's Repast (1951). He used special effects in such films as Summer Clouds (1958), but was Godzilla the first time [you worked with him?]
Honda: It was my first time, perhaps. At the time, Mr. Tamai and I lived next door to each other.
- Oh, [in] your current home?
Honda: The other side of the Odakyu Line, the direction from the photography studio. I was living in a corner of a rented house when Mr. Tamai moved in. Since [he] lived next door, [his] wife and children were all part of the family.
- That opening scene is just a deck set and a miniature ship, and if you think about it, the only real scenery is the wake. The sea in the background is [rear projection?]
Honda: It's really difficult to take pictures at night on a real ship. It is sometimes called a pseudo-night view, and is taken during the day. But I didn't feel any discomfort.
- Is it a technical issue?
Honda: A ship's power generation capacity is limited, so [we] couldn't use the lights very much. Even if you take a picture at [...] it's not like being on a real ship.
- Then the sightseeing boat in Tokyo Bay was also a set?
Honda: That's right, a set.
- In fact, Kenji Sahara makes an appearance in the beer hall on top of that ship. At the time, his stage name was Tadashi Ishihara.
Honda: Oh, was he there? I guess so.
- He debuted in Ureshi hazukashi kānbanmusume (1954) [TL note: No official English title for this. Translates to something like "Happy, Embarrassed Poster Girl". Also, I think Sahara debuted in Farewell Rabaul?] but wasn't credited, it must have been a screen test or something.
Honda: [heavily garbled passage, something about "after 30 years"]
- What is your relationship with the recording artist Hisashi Shimonaga, nicknamed "Shimosho"? [TL: Hisashi Shimonaga was a sound mixer for film who joined Toho in 1948. He worked on Godzilla.]
Honda: Well, this is a long story, but he comes from a musical background. I guess it wasn't at art school...
- How long have you known each other?
Honda: I've been going to see Hiroshi Nakane, a Russian music critic, since I was in middle school. [He?] was there too. Mr. Nakane was always open-minded and talked about all kinds of music. Later on, Shimonaga also joined Toho [...] so we became friends.
- As for the composer Akira Ifukube, Godzilla was his first special effects film. He was apparently recommended by Keikichi Kakeshita.
Honda: I remember that Mr. Ifukube's work was introduced as being able to express something big. [He's] also worked on a lot of music for movies other than [Toho's].
- Yes. Snow Trail (1947) was his first, and he has done over 100 movies. [...] How did you feel when you heard the finished music?
Honda: Honestly, from the moment we met, I knew [he] was a difficult person. Instead of saying "Okay, I understand", [he] was thinking about what kind of sound Godzilla would make at that moment -- what we would call a sound effect today, but in the old days, it would be onomatopoeic sound -- and [he] would listen to that sound in great detail, [and say] "If that's the case, I'll make the opposite sound." [TL: Ifukube and Honda had an interesting relationship and influenced each other's work in ways that I don't think most people would assume a composer and a director would.]
- Yes.
Honda: Even if you add music of the same nature when you're playing Godzilla's cry [TL: Here Honda imitates Godzilla roaring, which is transcribed as "Gyaaa!"], it doesn't make sense because it cancels out the sound, in the case of movie music.
- Ichiro Minawa is credited with the sound effects, [so] was he the one who created the sound of Godzilla's footsteps?
Honda: Godzilla's "don-don" [footsteps] were mainly [created by] two people, Minawa and Shimonaga.
- It was a collaborative effort.
Honda: To make the "Gyaaa" sound, [we used] part of a real animal's sound, [included] an instrument, and played it backwards. It took a lot of effort to add all of them and stack them all together. [TL: AFAIK the official line is that Godzilla's roar was created by Ifukube's assistant Sei Ikano rubbing the strings of a contrabass with a glove coated in rosin.]
- The title is very elaborately made, with Godzilla's footsteps and the Toho logo appearing...
Honda: Yes.
- Then, when the main title, "Godzilla", appears, there's a [roar], and the staff's introduction is overlaid with a [roar]. Then, when the name "Akira Ifukube" appears, the music begins. Did the director come up with that?
Honda: The director decides where to include the music first. The decision is then made through detailed discussions with the composer. Godzilla's cry is a masterpiece.
- The impact is amazing.
Honda: "Oh, what is that?" A strong touch, and then the music. That Godzilla appearance fits the content better.
- Who created the title itself?
Honda: The design of the title "Godzilla" was an advertising job for the head office. The rest of the characters for the staff and cast were written by someone specializing in titles. I believe it was [a] Mr. Izutsu.
- There are people who specialize in this.
Honda: That's right.
- [...] is this the first time you've worked with Koji Kajita?
Honda: I don't think it [was] the first time. I wonder if [we had?] before.
- It was for this film that he became the chief assistant director. It seems that this was the first time. Later, [Kajita] directed Ultra Q (1965) at Tsuburaya Productions. [TL: Kajita wrote one episode of Ultra Q, I believe.]
Honda: Kajita-kun is a perfectionist. Or rather, he's the kind of person who takes film seriously.
[TL: The machine translation of the next few lines is very rough, so I have omitted them. The interviewer and Honda have a short discussion of how to write and pronounce the name of Taichi Taira, the editor of Godzilla. The interviewer asks Honda how to pronounce his name and Honda replies that he doesn't know because he always called him "Heichin" (a nickname) rather than his real name. The kanji used in Taira's surname (平) can also be read as "Hei", which is why the interviewer is asking how to pronounce it. I know I always say that I don't know kanji, but I am quite familiar with various readings of this specific kanji - which can also be read as "Hira" - due to certain factors.]
- So Mr. [Taira] edited both the main story and the special effects?
Honda: Most of the special effects editing was done by Tsuburaya. When I had questions about connecting parts of the drama, I would go to Mr. Tsuburaya and discuss things, like "Let's cut this a little more."
- It seems that Teruo Maki, the production director, was very good at communicating.
Honda: If you're a production person and you're bad at negotiating, it's not good. That's right [laughs]. The true creators are the ones who can deal with things quickly and efficiently when things go awry.
- Going back to the subject of filming, is [the scene where] the evacuees escape an open set?
Honda: That's all Shinagawa. Godzilla came out off the coast of Shinagawa, right? At that time, if you went a little further down the coast from Shinagawa Station, there was a small town like that, and beyond that was a reclaimed land with reeds growing.
- That's why you decided to choose a large location, isn't it? [The bridge scene]...
Honda: Hatsuyama Bridge still exists today. It's a bridge above the Tokaido Line and Yamanote Line.
- It was lit with smoke and reverse lighting, giving it a strange feel. Also, there is a scene where many fire engines are running through the city.
Honda: Mr. Tsuburaya took some shots of that fire engine, because [of his] connection with miniatures.
- There's a scene where the movie rolls over in a stop-motion shot. Also, when Matsuzakaya goes up in flames, a mother and child are crushed. What was that?
Honda: [The] father died in the war. That's why [the line] ["We'll be with father soon."] A mother and child like that really existed at that time. One representative...
- Well, what you might call a representative of the era.
Honda: Yes, yes.
- Actually, the family members of the crew of the ship that sank at the beginning. I thought so [laughs].
Honda: [laughs] That kind of interpretation is fine too. No, but... [laughs] that's not the kind of connection. It's still a remnant of the war, or something like that.
- At a Diet briefing session, members of the Diet who had been listening to Dr. Yamane's story and laughing out loud suddenly started to panic when he said that the problem was due to the effects of nuclear tests by major powers.
Honda: Yeah, yeah [laughs].
- Then a female member of parliament (Kin Sugai) suddenly stands up and speaks. That was the social situation at that time...
Honda: That's right [laughs]. This was a time when female members of parliament were the most active and prominent, and they were more serious about tackling issues. Rather than the opposition parties, I was aiming for the idea that women were more likely to tackle problems head-on.
- It is very real to see fishermen standing in the hallways of government offices talking about compensation issues, saying "I can no longer catch fish". I think that even without this kind of depiction, the movie could still work.
Honda: Yes, but Godzilla appears. A representative of the people who believe that if something like this were to happen, given the social conditions of that time, such issues would definitely be [...] [In all] of my films, the public is always present. Unless the people themselves are confronted with the incident, only politicians and administrators will say, "Oh, that's what happened." I think even if you draw it like this, it will create a rift in the audience's psychology. The people are who suffer the most from Godzilla. Even if a field is destroyed or a building is destroyed, the people are the biggest victims. So, when I make a movie like this, I base it on that. A monster movie with no people is a lie. This is something I learned from my experience in the war in mainland China. Tanks are coming, cannons are coming. I would not be happy if my country's army came and destroyed my fields. In any case, the people who suffer the most in war are the masses. The people who live there, the residents.
- Even if we don't say it directly, if we continue to accumulate such depictions...
Honda: This is a work that everyone who watches it will definitely be impressed by. I think you can feel people's feelings. I think this is a dialogue between the film's creator and the audience.
- In Battle of the Japan Sea (1969), there is a depiction of a mother struggling to make ends meet because her son was killed in battle, even though the battle had been won.
Honda: Even if you win, it's probably better than losing... but war is a human tragedy that cannot be summed up by winning or losing.
- It was amazing to see Godzilla go on a rampage and turn Tokyo into ashes, but after that, when refugees are taken to a temporary hospital, the atmosphere becomes almost gruesome... as the crisply-dressed Ogata ascends the stairs, an injured female victim sitting in tatters suddenly looks up. Was that a performance you created on set?
Honda: Yes, of course it [was].
- It's a very natural and frightening scene...
Honda: That part is run mainly by people who love movies, which is called Toho's [ōbeya]. [...] each of these people imitates it themselves. That's how they used to do it. So it was pretty easy.
- You don't have to give detailed instructions...
Honda: Although I say it with emphasis, it's more like, "Teacher, what do you think about this and that?" "How about I do this?" I was doing it. Nowadays, [...]
- It doesn't matter how much a college student [is paid] to [act for] a day. It's like you can see the excitement even in the performances of those who aren't on screen.
Honda: [...] really excited. In the situation I just mentioned, most of the people are like that. Also, there were other members of the Otsuka group and various other people who were not exclusive to Toho, and they were very enthusiastic because they saw that kind of attitude from the exclusive people.
- Is the Otsuka group a catered production company? [TL: I don't know what this means.]
Honda: A lot of [actors] come from those places. These people would learn from each other, or their dedicated people would voluntarily instruct some of the people around them.
- Like a group leader...
Honda: Yes, yes. Everyone moves in that way. As I mentioned earlier, even if Godzilla comes out and [they run] away, if about 50 people from Toho [are] there, they will instruct the 100 people who have gathered there. Such people are the important public of Japanese cinema.
- [The] energy?
Honda: I wouldn't say it's the last word, though. The quality of these people was present at the studio. They say it's [ōbeya], but once that quality is gone, the movies I make that are centered around the masses gradually lose their enthusiasm.
- Shinkichi is the younger brother of the [TL: The translation just says "politician". Shinkichi is the Odo Island boy whose family is killed by Godzilla.] but Ogata adopted him after his parents passed away.
Honda: That's Dr. Yamane's house, isn't it? [...]
- Was it common at that time to take in children who had lost their immediate family in the war?
Honda: At that time, war orphans were a problem.
- Was the scene where the train derails inspired by King Kong?
Honda: If you come to Shinagawa Station, you will find the Tokaido Line. Some people may see it as an imitation [of King Kong] because it was taken later, but it was not an imitation.
- There are several shots of empty bar streets, were they also open sets? All the neon lights and lanterns are on, but it's definitely not a location shoot. [TL: The next two lines are not translating well.]
Honda: Yeah, that's right. Tenjinbashi in Shinagawa. Especially when they ran away with a cart, everyone did it with great enthusiasm.
- That evacuation scene was like watching an NHK documentary.
Honda: I guess so. It's that kind of enthusiasm at the photo studio. The people in the acting department who weren't the main actors were in that position and were trying to enjoy the movie and make it better.
- Then, the location of the large auditorium where the chorus of "Prayer for Peace" was sung...
Honda: That's Toho Gakuen today.
- The theater department was created by merging the Haiyuza training school.
Honda: Yes. Before the war, it was a girls' school. [At the time of Godzilla] it was an all-girls' high school. We rented the auditorium and filmed on location. Everyone was Toho students.
- Did you really ask them to sing?
Honda: They really learned the song and sung it.
- There were so many people that there was some talk that the ones in the back might be composite shots [laughs].
Honda: Why? [laughs] It was not like that.
- There were also people on the second floor, I think there were about 2,000 people there.
Honda: It was all students, so there might have been about that many.
- The number of people listening to the chorus being played on the radio is amazing.
Honda: That's the Kinuta Elementary School gymnasium.
- Then, the building that became a temporary hospital...
Honda: The entrance was probably the Meguro Infectious Disease Research Institute. It was a former naval hospital. Now, [they would] never let me take pictures [there].
- That's the front garden. And, [going inside]...
Honda: It's a studio set.
- The number of injured people [in the hospital] is also considerable.
Honda: At that time, 4 to 500 or even 1,000 people was a rough number [of extras] for regular movies.
- This is a pictorial sketch that was adopted from Eagle of the Pacific, and used in every major production, and was the idea of Iwao Mori, the head of production. It was also used in Godzilla, but what was its purpose? [TL: The interviewer seems to have switched subjects to talk about production in general.]
Honda: Since it's a difficult subject to understand, we wanted to make sure that all the staff at the site could understand it. They were divided into two teams, one for the main story and one for the special effects, and we asked them to come up with a rough idea of what it would be like.
- There are photos lined up on the wall.
Honda: I think this was both a meeting and a demonstration for a newspaper announcement. [...]
- The picture was drawn by Akira Watanabe? [TL: The interviewer is here talking about the special effects, such as Godzilla's atomic breath, which had to be drawn by hand onto the film.]
Honda: Watanabe was the main drawer, with Sadao Iizuka and other students also drawing part-time. [TL: The next few lines aren't translating well]
- Speaking of actors, Takashi Shimura also worked on director Honda's theatrical debut, The Blue Pearl, as well as The Skin of the South, The Man Who Came to Port, Eagle of the Pacific, Farewell Rabaul, and most of [Honda's] early works.
Honda: Mr. Shimura also lived in Seijo. This is a family relationship.
- As an actor, I'd say his acting is natural, but it's not like he's very prepared. It feels like it's coming in quickly.
Honda: I think you could say that this is the Toho style of acting. When it comes to leading roles, it becomes another kind of star-like performance. Mr. Shimura played lead roles, but when he came to Toho, he was more of a supporting player. Then when he appeared in a film directed by Akira Kurosawa, he started wearing casual clothes that fit easily, even if he played the leading role in Seven Samurai or Ikiru.
- It's like that kind of characteristic...
Honda: That kind of person is a good fit for my movie.
- I get the impression he understands his role very well.
Honda: Yes, yes. So that role was [his]. If you don't think it's a good fit, say "It's not for me". It wasn't just that he could play any role.
- The character of Dr. Yamane is an alter ego of Shigeru Kayama.
Honda: Yes. As a scientist, Mr. Kayama is someone who has taken that position.
- Fuyuki Murakami, who plays Dr. Tanabe, doesn't have many lines, but he is always behind Dr. Yamane, and you could say that he has a supporting role...
Honda: This is because [Yamane] is a biologist, so he represents the other side of chemistry.
- Even though [Yamane] gets excited easily, [Tanabe] is cool.
Honda: [laughs]
- Even when Shimura says the line "I can't believe that Godzilla is the last one" he stands up, shakes his head, and cuts out of frame. It was nice there.
Honda: As scientists, [they] both have some reflections on science. So it ended with these two scientists, right?
- Also, Saburo Iketani, who is famous for being the announcer who always appears on TV [laughs].
Honda: Yes [laughs].
- What was the impetus for [Iketani's] appearance?
Honda: Who is this among professional announcers? I thought [he] would be good. [He was] young and [his face] was good and his voice was good.
- [...] Was he an NHK announcer?
Honda: [He was] TBS.
- TV announcer?
Honda: There was a lot of radio at that time.
- [heavily garbled]
Honda: [He] had a very clear voice. It was good for recording.
- [He] hadn't appeared in film directed by anyone other than Honda, right?
Honda: There are so many [works] out there. He must have appeared in many Toho works.
- Regarding Akihiko Hirata, who plays Dr. Serizawa, there is a still of Mr. Hirata in student clothes with Momoko Kōchi. What kind of scene is this?
Honda: It's for a still. [The] [TL: Here the text says "still man"; I'm not sure what this term means, I assume "still photographer"] said something like this probably happened, so I guess it's like they were old lovers... Hirata without an eyepatch.
- It's not a scene that was shot in the main story and then cut.
Honda: It wasn't like that.
- There's also a story that Hirata was originally supposed to play Ogata.
Honda: No, that wasn't it. [TL: Akira Takarada has said in an interview with Stuart Galbraith that he and Hirata's roles were originally reversed, but that Hirata was ultimately chosen to play Dr. Serizawa as he had "a more scientist-like face". Make of that what you will.]
- Akira Takarada and Momoko Kōchi who appear at the beginning. [Were they] exclusive to Toho?
Honda: No, TBS. [I asked them?] to come when they had free time to make an announcement at work. [next line is heavily garbled]
- So, what does the "GHK" armband that Iketani wears mean?
Honda: That was a press armband, and I couldn't use "NHK", so I guess I chose "GHK".
- Among fans, [some thought] it was an abbreviation for "Godzilla Broadcasting Corporation".
Honda: [laughs]
- When I look at the couple [Ogata and Emiko], I see that they are both extremely beautiful and healthy lovers, full of youthful energy.
Honda: Yes.
- However, Mr. Hirata is morbidly gloomy. As for the lighting, when Mr. Hirata appears, the shadows are very dark.
Honda: Yes, yes.
- This is a symbol of the future and the past[?]
Honda: Yes, that's right. There's something like that underground laboratory, and it was inspired by the house of a very rich man I know. The entire top was burnt in an air raid. However, only the bottom part remains in good condition, in the basement. Therefore, [Serizawa] was upper-class, and his house itself was that way. Imagine the construction.
- It's a Western-style building.
Honda: It's an old Western-style building, [surviving?] through the war era. I created it with the image of an old Western-style house. At the same time, [Serizawa] was physically injured.
- It's a scar from the war.
Honda: In that sense, your interpretation is correct. Therefore, the camera and lighting are also slightly darker.
- Also, I might be thinking too much, but... when Mr. Hirata says dark lines, his eyepatch is pointed towards the camera to emphasize it. It seems like a play is being performed.
Honda: That's not what I ordered when it came to acting. Regarding the acting itself, it was a dark line, so [he] had to move like that. That means it might have happened.
- When you created [Serizawa], did you have the image of Einstein, who discovered the theory, or Oppenheimer, who helped created the atomic bomb?
Honda: That's right, as a scientist. Therefore the Oxygen Destroyer is as dangerous as an atomic bomb. Godzilla cannot be defeated unless it poses a greater danger than the atomic bomb.
- Godzilla itself is a "living atomic bomb".
Honda: And if we create something [greater] than Godzilla, it will also be a weapon [greater] than the atomic bomb. [...] However, I think it must be very disturbing to see it being used as a weapon. That's why [he] dies on [his] own. It's a sacrifice of human wisdom.
- Yes.
Honda: [Serizawa] just happened to be the first to discover it. However, if there is a principle that actually destroys oxygen, some scientist will discover it even if he dies. But wouldn't it be too much for a human being to bear being the person in charge?
- That's right.
Honda: That's probably true of the staff who actually built the atomic bomb. There is also a story that Einstein said before he died that he was wrong to build the atomic bomb. We didn't know about that story when we were making Godzilla. This is a great reflection of a great scientist.
- So you could call it a suicide with Godzilla, or rather a mutual stabbing.
Honda: This way of thinking is truly [Eastern], and perhaps Japanese. It's like the Japanese military spirit.
- [Special attack] spirit...
Honda: It's like a [special attack] mentality. Japanese people may have something like that fear.
- It's like you're passing on the responsibility with your own death.
Honda: Yes. The weight of [...] responsibility is unbearable.
- It may be too romantic, but it's like Godzilla and Serizawa merged in the ocean, and their souls became the same.
Honda: [laughs]
- Maybe a little too [Eastern].
Honda: Yes.
- A requiem song plays there. Is this song for both Godzilla and Serizawa?
Honda: Yes.
- There [...] an economic white paper two years after this work. For example, there was the declaration that "this is no longer the post-war period". So, with Serizawa's death, I think there was something like a wish that an old era was ending.
Honda: That's right. Also, as for the atomic bomb, it would be fine if production stopped because of that. Many countries were experimenting with this. At that time, there were only a few atomic bombs, but now there are tens of thousands of atomic bombs around the world. Moreover, [there is] something even more powerful than that.
- A neutron bomb?
Honda: It's sad that there haven't been any fewer nuclear bombs since that. That's sad...
- The number is increasing.
Honda: We really want to appeal to the United States, the Soviet Union, and the countries that own atomic weapons to abolish them. That's the origin of Godzilla. No matter how many Godzilla movies are made, that theme is still something that can't be said out loud enough.
- So while [Emiko] was silently watching, and she points her Geiger counter at the little girl, it [goes off]. [Tanabe] silently shakes his head, and [Emiko] helplessly hugs the child, who cries "Mom!" That feeling is amazing.
Honda: I don't have anything to say.
- [When] Emiko breaks her promise to Serizawa [and makes] a decision...
Honda: No matter how much [Dr. Yamane], as a biologist, said that researching Godzilla would be for the benefit of humanity, in reality, Godzilla's mere act of walking or breathing is causing a huge sacrifice. It's a [?] that can't be overlooked, and it's up to the viewer to decide whether or not this symbolic handling was successfully expressed. When Emiko saw the people, she was very patient. In order to defeat Godzilla, she and Serizawa break a promise.
- You [shot this] relatively calmly.
Honda: Scenes like this tend to become big plays. But what's important is the actors' hearts. It's important to have real feelings from someone.
- It seemed like it came out naturally.
Honda: Yes. It's important to have movements that naturally capture the content.
- After that, Ogata and Serizawa fight in the basement but they fight with the [fish] tank in the foreground. It's hidden and only expressed with [metaphor?]
Honda: Well, that tank has an important meaning, as it showed the [Oxygen Destroyer] experiment.
- So you emphasized that.
Honda: If it were a normal action movie, they would probably be shown fighting. In that case, the Oxygen Destroyer is more important than the fight itself, so the sound alone is better.
- Emiko wipes the blood from Ogata's forehead with a handkerchief from her [chest pocket], and Serizawa looks on sadly. Something, "I understand now". That's what it feels like.
Honda: [laughs]
- It's a spiritual love triangle, isn't it?
Honda: That's right.
- When Serizawa realizes that [Emiko and Ogata] had fallen in love, he hears that chorus [Prayer for Peace] on the television. Serizawa had decided to die at that time.
Honda: That's right. By the time he decides to use the Oxygen Destroyer, it's time. I guess he thought that he would go to Godzilla himself.
- That's why his face becomes very soft.
Honda: I think Serizawa must have suffered a lot. Even though he knew that the Oxygen Destroyer would definitely be able to defeat Godzilla, he was suffering alone in fear of what would happen if it were to be used as a weapon. By [telling] Emiko about it, who was [his] lover, he felt relieved.
- Emiko tells Ogata about it.
Honda: I guess [Emiko] already knew at this point that she was going toward [Ogata].
- That was completely revealed in the scene after the fight.
Honda: Yes.
- In that sense, it's a universal love triangle. As I said earlier, it is a double symbol of hope for the future and the shadow of war.
Honda: Yes. This part of the film was like a feature film. It was all about making melodrama.
- [...] I feel like it's a very orthodox and well-made drama even as a romantic drama. Well done.
Honda: Well, maybe it's too orthodox, but for a melodrama [laughs]. There are thousands of stories about love triangles like this.
- [TL: The interviewer here names several foreign romance films including Casablanca; I'm not sure what they all are since he's using the Japanese titles.]
Honda: In this love triangle, even if the country or race is different, the essence of the psychological relationship between men and women remains the same.
- The Blue Pearl is also about one man and two women.
Honda: Yes, that's right [laughs].
- In Frankenstein vs. Baragon, there is a love triangle that is a flipped version of Godzilla.
Honda: Yes, yes.
- Very dramatic as a human relationship. Moreover, it is cinematic.
Honda: [A movie] takes about an hour and a half to two hours. This is a drama that takes place under certain time constraints. If there are too many important characters, it may be difficult to fully portray their feelings. If it's a TV drama, it takes half a year to [establish] it, so if it's a drama about one or two people there are quite a few people who don't like it.
- Is three people the best for squeezing in [?]
Honda: Yes. Considering the physical conditions of the audience, a theatrical movie is one and a half to two hours long. Three hours at the most.
- What did [you, the director] say about the completed preview of Godzilla? Were you able to watch it?
Honda: [I saw it at] the company preview room and Takarazuka Theater preview screening for fans.
- Did you [go] with Shigeru Kayama?
Honda: When I was at Takarazuka, I saw Mr. Kayama and I remember saying hello. When we finished, Mr. Kayama took off his glasses and rubbed his eyes vigorously.
- And when it was released, it was a big hit, but it was not well-received by film critics at the time...
Honda: Many people said that it was stupid that Godzilla breathes fire. An American vendor said, "It's very realistic, in a cinematic way" and bought it based on that alone. I hit the jackpot over there too. This difference in perspective is why Godzilla's name is even included in encyclopedias. [Although] we know that radioactivity does not create flames. This is the only [...] that requires visual expression.
- It's a cinematic lie.
Honda: That's right.
- When I watch today's foreign SFX movies, I really feel that Godzilla was a pioneering work, and I feel that it was too pioneering to be appreciated.
Honda: Well, the fact that you and I are now talking about Godzilla thirty years after its release makes me extremely satisfied and grateful.
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